Certain "Freedom Loving Americans" Would Only Give 'em a Year in Prison for Desecration of a Venerated Symbol
This burning of old glory is free expression :
The burning of the Danish flag is also free expression (as was the caricature that prompted it).
It's the punishment for free expression that is completely fucked up.
As we express our moral outrage at those who hate free expression, I can't help but recall that a majority of the House of Representatives in 1995 wanted to lock those who desecrate the sacred flag in prison for a year. And there are plenty of those same people ready to try it again. All they need to do it is a Supreme Court ready to overturn the famed Johnson case. Hmm. Johnson burned a flag in protest of Reaganism, the precursor to Bushcheneyism, during the 1984 Repbublican National Convention. He got a year in the slammer for the crime of "desecration of a venerated object." Okay, so it didn't make too many call for the death penalty or the penalty of having his embassy burned down in some other country, but that's just a question of degree, not principle. And the Supreme Court overturned the conviction. But now we got that Alito boy and that Roberts boy up there, so who knows? The Free Expression Police must be fingering their weapons again, as are many members of Congress.
As an aside on the question of degree versus principle: Theft is illegal in this country. We lock people up for that crime. Theft is illegal in Saudi Arabia. They'll kill you or amputate a body part for the same crime. But our government respects these cultural differences in the degree and kind of punishment for the same crime. As we all know our Oiligarchs and the Saudis are best buds. Of course, you can also lose a body part or your life for "sorcery" in Saudi Arabia. And you sure as shit can get executed if you are of the wrong sexual orientation. Anyhow, in the U.S.: a year for desecration of one person's sacred object. Elsewhere: your life or your embassy. In part, a question of degree, eh?
Death for Sorcery Info link
And it ain't over here in the U S of A. There were recent arrests for "desecration of a venerated object" (an American flag) in Kentucky.
Fixin' to lock up the flag burnin' blasphemers in Ole Tennessee in 2006 link
Free expression in the Middle East:
The Middle Eastern harsher than a year in the slammer punishment for desecration of a venerated thingee:
Now, please don't get me wrong. I think that those who torch embassies and threaten death to cartoonists are the biggest flamin' assholes in the world. Just thinking about a couple things.
Flag Burning Educational Site
The burning of the Danish flag is also free expression (as was the caricature that prompted it).
It's the punishment for free expression that is completely fucked up.
As we express our moral outrage at those who hate free expression, I can't help but recall that a majority of the House of Representatives in 1995 wanted to lock those who desecrate the sacred flag in prison for a year. And there are plenty of those same people ready to try it again. All they need to do it is a Supreme Court ready to overturn the famed Johnson case. Hmm. Johnson burned a flag in protest of Reaganism, the precursor to Bushcheneyism, during the 1984 Repbublican National Convention. He got a year in the slammer for the crime of "desecration of a venerated object." Okay, so it didn't make too many call for the death penalty or the penalty of having his embassy burned down in some other country, but that's just a question of degree, not principle. And the Supreme Court overturned the conviction. But now we got that Alito boy and that Roberts boy up there, so who knows? The Free Expression Police must be fingering their weapons again, as are many members of Congress.
As an aside on the question of degree versus principle: Theft is illegal in this country. We lock people up for that crime. Theft is illegal in Saudi Arabia. They'll kill you or amputate a body part for the same crime. But our government respects these cultural differences in the degree and kind of punishment for the same crime. As we all know our Oiligarchs and the Saudis are best buds. Of course, you can also lose a body part or your life for "sorcery" in Saudi Arabia. And you sure as shit can get executed if you are of the wrong sexual orientation. Anyhow, in the U.S.: a year for desecration of one person's sacred object. Elsewhere: your life or your embassy. In part, a question of degree, eh?
And it ain't over here in the U S of A. There were recent arrests for "desecration of a venerated object" (an American flag) in Kentucky.
Free expression in the Middle East:
The Middle Eastern harsher than a year in the slammer punishment for desecration of a venerated thingee:
Now, please don't get me wrong. I think that those who torch embassies and threaten death to cartoonists are the biggest flamin' assholes in the world. Just thinking about a couple things.
posted by Rory Shock at 4:15 PM
11 Comments:
Yeah, free speech is great as long as they like what they hear and see. I hope you aren't on "the list" and that your travel is free and easy, as it should be. I'll be very interested to find out. Long live the Free Speech Zone.
i'd be in a heap o' trouble (and not even for flag burning)
great posting by the way
Hey, what say we burn Mohammed in effigy? That is if we can find a picture of him...
Thanks guys. Yeah, neil, you point out a real problem. If there are no pictures of him to work from then are representations really representations at all? Couldn't the raging embassy burners just have told themselves that the cartoon wasn't really M at all? And what about purely mental pictures ... are they verboten as well? Maybe if you are afraid you are going to have an M vision, you just visualize a burning Scandanavian Embassy instead. The silly shit people kill and incarcerate others over ...
The main problem is that the people who rushed to defend the American flag burners are much more hesitant about defending the Danes. The people who cry free speech (or art) when putting a crucifix in a jar of urine are the same people who think that the Danes are wrong.
So which is it? Do we have free speech or must we censor ourselves when dealing with a subject not deemed politically correct?
What I see is cowardice. The free-speechers who hesitate at defending the Danes are similar in other circles. Feminists cry out if women can't be in special forces, but say nothing about their sisters who are sold into marriages and "honor" killed if they wear makeup. Environmentalists routinely ignore gross pollution in China. Jailed Chinese dissents get no sympathy from the free-speechers in America. The problem is that the American protesters feel that they can make a big stand against the US & act tough, because they know they can get away with it. They are too scared of the real bullies, Islamism and Red China to say anything.
i think you're VERY wrong 'the' christopher
provocative comments everyone ... hey, the christopher, let me say this: I am on who believes that the placing of a crucifix in a bottle of urine is proteced free expression and I "defend" the Danes. The Danes have done nothing except refuse to trample the particular free speech rights in question. I "defend" the rights of those who are pissed off by freedom of speech in Denmark to exercise their right of free speech and desecrate what is surely a venerated symbol to many Danes -- their national flag. Re: the people who "rushed to defend the American flag burners." A lot of these same people would and do defend the Danes ... now take the ACLU for example, they have even defended American Nazis, not because they agree with the speech but the right to make it ... there must be some particular people you are referring to out there ... I am sure there are people who have taken hypocritical positions as you point out, like flag burning should be defended, but cartooning of other people's religious icons should be banned ... as to the statement about feminists, I'll leave it to rose and becca if they have more to say ... as to the environmentalists: You have a point that environmental degradation is taking place big time over there, in part to support US consumption and desire for cheap shit to buy, and I think you are right that the Western environmental movement hasn't developed a strategy for dealing with a step backwards in time in terms of environmental practices on the other side of the earth. The place to start in that regard is probably close to home with those who are profiting here hand over fist from investing in the export of production to the detriment of the American worker and the world environment (as well as workers elsewhere).
no i have nothing more to say to the christopher. you've said it all (and much better than i) rory. i guess the christopher has never been within ear shot of me when i'm talking female genital mutilation or honor killings or not getting paid equally or killing girl babies or having a man look at your breastesesesesessesesesss when you speak and american polygamists marrying thirteen year old girls and on and on........
Freedom of expression must be defended in all its ugly forms, for it is depictions of the grotesque and offensive that provides the freedom to create beauty. Without one there is not the other and while the value of each can be argued and debated, the freedom to create it should be complete, universal and protected under the law.
In other words, I agree with you Rory. Great post.
re: the last two comments ... nope rose, I think you did have something more to say and better than I could have. liberal girl ... right on ... beautiful summing up ...
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